Last Sunday was the finals in the Ultimate Music Challenge in Viejas. I was one of the judges. The UMC was a battle of the (cover) bands contest that offered a $20,000 grand prize. Second place won $8,000, and third place took $4,000. It was a 12-week process, occurring every Sunday night, and I was there judging it from the beginning. It was a blast, although sometimes taxing on the soul. There were some awful bands, some great ones, and a lot of mediocrity as you would expect in such a contest. For me, the highlights were a Velvet Underground tribute band called New York Underground, that played all the early, sexy Lou Reed stuff and had an androgynous lead singer who himself appeared to be hooked on heroin. They weren’t great, but I do love that Lou Reed guy. There was a funny nerd band called The Pocket Protectors who came out dressed in lab coats, flood pants and masking tape holding their black-rim eyeglasses together. They played songs like Mr. Roboto from Styx and were hilarious to watch. There was Metal Snake, who I liked for the name alone, and because the backup singer kept opening his shirt to expose his hairless, skinny chest, which was so gay, but so perfect for the music they were covering. There was a fantastic Lynyrd Skynyrd cover band that, in my mind, was flawless. They got eeked out however by Lady Dottie and the Diamonds who the other judges thought were better.
Anyway, Sunday was the finals. There were four contestants fighting for 3 places: Lady Dottie and the Diamonds (blues and rock) Cash’d Out (Johnny Cash tribute band), Detroit Underground (funk and soul), and Crush (soul and R&B).
Lady Dottie came out first. In the semi-finals they had a strong outing and rocked the room with a well-arranged, rollercoasterian set. Everyone had them as a favorite going into the finals, but unlike last time, they bulldozed through the songs, never really varying their tempo or song selections, so that they all blurred together. Next came Detroit Underground, another band who tore it up in the semis but seemed relatively flatfooted in the finals. After D.U. came Cash’d Out who played a near-flawless set and, at times, made us feel as though it were really Johnny Cash up there talking and singing to us. Highlight was the song, “Jackson” which they nailed with the help of a June Carter sound-alike. Then came Crush. Crush opened their set solidly. They began with a cool quasi-instrumental groove with the keyboardist going nuts on a vocoder. Then the girls came out. They had three hot chick singers who were dressed in ’50s private-eye overcoats and hats and did a stunning, choreographed version of “Fever,” after which they stripped off the overcoats revealing their sexy-mama hot pants and did a Beyoncé song and a couple of other dance and soul numbers, which were good, but the vocals were shaky. In the middle of the set they hit a lull from which they never recovered. Crush ended up taking third place. Detroit Underground came in second and Cash’d Out won the 20k.
To announce the winners, they had the judges come on stage. It was Dave Patrone, Gene “Negro” Perry, Jaime Valle and me. We each held over-sized checks to give to their respective winners.
I tell you, before getting on stage, we were all a little concerned. A lot of these fans took this contest very seriously (as if they stood to win the money themselves). They are very protective of their bands. Throughout the 12-week contest, people kept coming up to me trying to get me to vote for their favorite band, or explain why their favorite band was better than the others, or to offer excuses when they felt their band wasn’t up to par (“The sound man isn’t putting enough vocals in the mic”). One woman even tried to get me to disqualify another band for bringing in a ringer, which wasn’t the case. It was the kind of stuff you might see if Christopher Guest made a mockumentary about the battle of the bands circuit.
So yeah, we were a bit concerned getting up on that stage in front of all those fanatics. But you know, judges are warriors. Dave Patrone spoke first and gave his obligatory, “All the bands were great and it was so close,” speech. Then Gene took the mic to announce the third place winner. When he said, “And the winner of third place and $4,000 is. . . Crush,” the place went apeshit. People were hissing and booing. Many thought they should’ve won first place. Others thought they shouldn’t have won anything. Nobody was happy about that announcement. Then I announced second place winner (Detroit Underground, 8k), and there was a smattering of applause, some cheers, some boos. Then Jaime Valle came out to announce the winner. At first they wouldn’t let him speak. People were still booing and hissing about the previous announcements. So Jaime lashed back at them, kind of scoldingly, even cursed a bit. “We’ve been here for fucking 12 weeks,” he said, or something to that effect. At that point people began heckling Jaime and booing him. It was a debacle, and it was riotous.
Then he began to announce the winner. At that point I think most of the people in the room were thinking it was going to be Lady Dottie. Probably because, they had brought the most people in and, being a Johnny Cash cover band, Cash’d Out is not really the type of band who would necessarily work in the casino lounge circuit. The other, more danceable bands seemed more appropriate to this venue. But we, as judges, didn’t care about that. We were grading on the musicianship and showmanship regardless of genre. When Jaime announced Cash’d Out, all the Cash fans cheered, but all the Dottie fans started booing, and heckling and being overall douchebags about the whole thing. The other malcontents joined in and there was a little boofest going on for a bit. I began to feel vulnerable up there, exposed, like a Blackhawk hovering over Ramadi. I kept waiting for that first beer bottle to hit somebody in the face and kept scanning for a place to make a quick exit. But then Cash’d Out came on stage to take pictures with their over-sized checks and they were so grateful, and shocked and happy that it made all the grumbling and moaning and booing worth it.
While the shutters clicked and the bulbs sparked, I slunk away to the bar and ordered a beer and a shot. I needed it badly.
August 16, 2007 - 7:38 am at 7:38 am
whatever. im sure lady dottie deserved to win- but seriously what can you expect from a COVER BAND BATTLE OF THE BANDS at VIEJAS? Are you kidding me? Is this the oscars?
August 16, 2007 - 8:32 am at 8:32 am
I (heart) Cash’d Out.
Running neck-and-neck for my favorite San Diego cover band is Ziggy Shuffledust, a spot-on David Bowie cover band featuring (at least?) one of the guys from Creedle. They play really infrequently, which is too bad.
August 16, 2007 - 8:48 am at 8:48 am
I was actually there. I don’t know how Ed did it, but he convinced me to drive to the sticks to see this thing (plus I had never seen Cash’d Out and am a huge Cash fan). So off I went to BFE. Anyway, saw 3 of the 4 bands. Gotta say, Cash’d Out kept my attention. Shit, they were fucking great.
Lady Dottie, while I certainly appreciate the musicanship and what they are going for, were just not on. Like they were just going thru the motions. Actually, they played like they belonged in an Indian Casino bar.
Good show Ed. Wish I had stayed for the melee…maybe I could have helped push it to “riot.” Hate missing those opportunities.
b.
August 16, 2007 - 9:43 am at 9:43 am
I was there for the semi-finals and can tell you that Lady Dottie’s stage performance, energy, crowd interaction and musicianship was WAY better that that of Cash’d Outs. I love those boys, but they are not as entertaining as Dottie is, hands down. It was really bad to see those other bands at least PLACE and to see Dottie have to sulk away unrewarded. What ever happened to the crowd and fans being a big part of who wins?!?
August 16, 2007 - 12:37 pm at 12:37 pm
I’m not sure how Cat Dirt can say that she’s, “… sure lady Dottie deserved to win,” having not been there for any of the performances.
4 judges — 3 of which were veteran musicans with nearly 100 years of combined experience in the music business– unanimously agreed that Cash’d Out should win and that Lady Dottie should not. And this after having sat through 12 weeks of bands including seeing the 4 finalists 3 times each.
But I guess Cat Dirt knows better than us because she said she’s “sure” Dottie deserved it.
Also, to criticize the contest because it was for cover bands shows a complete lack of understanding about the art and the skill it takes to perform covers, especially for tribute bands, which many of the bands were. No, it’s not original music, which is a truer art form, but to dismiss cover bands like that smacks of the highest order of snobbery.
Also, RE: reedmandy’s concern about crowd participation being part of the judging process, it absolutely was. And there were several bands throughout the process that did not gain the judges favor but won from crowd response. Federal Funk comes to mind.
But crowd response was only a part of it. There were several categories with different levels of importance to the overall grade. If crowd response was everything, then why have judges at all?
it’s true Lady Dottie got a great crowd response, but so did all the other bands. It was very difficult to tell them apart crowd noise-wise. Fortunately there was a decible reader which calculated that for us so there was no room for subjectivity in that category.
And yes, as I said in the post, Lady Dottie was better than Cash’d Out in the semis. They were better than everybody. Going in to the finals I was certain they were going to take it all. But they didn’t bring it. Even Brian “Nucci” Cantrell (drummer*) told me afterward that they weren’t happy about the set. And again, I find it interesting that a person who wasn’t ‘t at the finals can have the opinion that it was, “really bad to see the other bands place,” which supports my point about the obsessed, blind devotion some people have to see their favorite bands win.
Bottom line, the best band won by a margin. The last 3 places were too close for comfort, but Cash’d Out — well, I hope they’re in Vegas right now doubling up.
EJD
*Nucci, incidentally, was the best drummer through the whole 12 weeks including the finals. That guy can play!
August 16, 2007 - 12:40 pm at 12:40 pm
P.S. The DreamCatcher lounge in, yes, Viejas, is one of the best music venues in town. The stage is huge, the house light show is phenomenal, the room is big but not too big, the bar is close, the ceiling is high, the AC is cranking, and the sound is awesome. You should go there sometime before you criticize it cat dirt.
August 16, 2007 - 1:22 pm at 1:22 pm
um re: dream catcher lounge being best venue in town- what town is that alpine? because that lounge isn’t in san diego- which is what “best venue in town” means to me.
also: I’ve been to dreamcatcher- after fifty on their heels won “best punk band” at the 2006 san diego music awards, we saw the sdma after party with- oh- Cash’d Out. i actually reviewed the venue favorably last year- so on you- decker.
re: using the female pronoun to refer to me. i’ve been quoted in san diego city beat repeatedly, with my real name, so i’ll assume its simple ignorance rather then an attempt at insult that causes you to refer to me as a woman.
re: criticizing cover bands being the “highest order of snobbery”. If dissing cover bands and cover band “battle of the band” style contests makes me a snob- yes. To be fair to cover bands, i am “snobbish” about all “battle of the bands” competitions, and have been that way since i started putting my opinions in print- but battles of the bands are demeaning to the bands involved (although- to be fair to THIS contest- the money involved would be enough for me to be get involved- so this contest is certainly less demeaning then other battle of the band type events).
why do bands have to battle? is that being snobbish?
back to you decker.
August 16, 2007 - 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm
LOL — ok, not bad dirtman. I apologize for misgenderizing you. Don’t know why I thought you were a female. Coulda swore I read something somewhere in which cat dirt was a she. Or maybe it was the cat/feline thing. In either case, one point for you.
I did not however say that the DreamCatcher was the best venue in town but one of them, however I did use the term “town” incorrectly and probably should’ve said “region.” another point for you.
As for band competitions, I understand the revulsion toward them. But sometimes, if you let them, they can be a helluva lot of fun, as was the UMC at Viejas. Of course, some people take it too seriously which I find comical, but for the most part it was a blast. That one’s a push, which makes the score, presently, 2-0 your favor.
However, I don’t know how you are going to respond to my in-your-face 3 pointer about your saying Lady Dottie shouldn’t have won when you weren’t there. That’s a slam dunk in my mind and, If I were you, I’d surrender now before it gets any uglier.
score
Decker 3
cat dirt 2
August 16, 2007 - 2:22 pm at 2:22 pm
I actually think that any reference to CatDirt as a woman is an (undeserved) upgrade. Give Decker a couple extra points for that! Or wait…should he be docked…?
August 16, 2007 - 2:56 pm at 2:56 pm
Yes, Cash’d Out should have won, but I think Lady Dottie should have finished second or third.
Jamie is a joke. I lost all respect for the guy. Talk about a guy who took it too serious.
Ed, I thought I bought your drink and your vote.
August 16, 2007 - 3:22 pm at 3:22 pm
Cover Me Badd’s Blasphemous Guitars is without question, the greatest coverband on earth. Rather than show up and destroy everyone, we opted to break up. It seriously would not have been fair. To all the bands who competed: you’re welcome for us not competing. I know some of the guys in Cash’d Out (& Cash Kings) and we’ve joked plenty about how similar all of Johnny’s songs are (as great as they are)! While they do a REALLY good job at doing them justice, I can see how folks might’ve been upset if they’re easily distracted by songs with more than three chords. To be fair, I really must repeat that we would’ve won. At least you can vote for us in the San Diego Music Awards. What would be more ironic than a dead band beating a tribute act that just won $20,000? You know what to do.
August 16, 2007 - 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm
But were you there Kevin? Did you see the finals? The judges were only judging them on their performance THAT night. And Lady Dottie was not that great in the finals. They weren’t bad either, but this was the top 4 of about 50 bands – “not bad” wasn’t going to cut it.
Here’s what I think happened: In previous appearances, the Diamonds had mature, solid, powerful sets. They worked the crowd. They took us high, took us low and took us everywhere in between. They were full-on pro sets. But for the finals I think they made a rookie mistake. I think they wanted to bring it hard, wanted to bust it out with high tempo rock tunes and blow the crowd away. But how it played was a sort of bulldozer effect, like they were plowing through their set – no patience, no set ups, no foreplay – just fuck and cum and nothing else. That’s what that set was like and ultimately, I believe, why they didn’t place.
August 17, 2007 - 8:37 am at 8:37 am
all i’m saying is, last time i checked, an in-your-face slam dunk counted for 2 points, not 3, unless you did manage to jump all the way from outside the 3 point line, in which case, tip of the hat to you, sir
August 17, 2007 - 11:06 am at 11:06 am
Ed - I can easily see how you could make that mistake. CatDirt is constantly taking on the tone of a bitch in his blog (and others).
August 19, 2007 - 12:57 am at 12:57 am
I was at both the semi-finals and the finals and regardless of Lady Dottie supposedly “not bringing it”, they did seem to grab the attention of those on the dance floor (myself included). So it was even more unconvincing when Jaime Valle not only mentioned crowd participation but also made it sound as though “the crowd picked the winner”. Why say that at all when despite Cash’d Outs near perfect Cash covers they had probably the lowest crowd participation, both at the semi-finals and finals. I could not disagree with the near perfect execution of the classic man in black, but Valles’s attempt to appease the masses and then to tell the unruly crowd to “fuck off because he’s holding the money right now”? It’s no surprise that the crowd was primarily booing the judges, not Cash’d Outs victory.
August 19, 2007 - 11:26 am at 11:26 am
Atheist, thanks for the comments. I’d like to make a couple of corrections though.
1. Jaime did not tell the crowd to “fuck off.” He used the word “fuck” but it was more like I wrote in the original blog, something like, “We’ve been here for 12 fucking weeks.”
2. The crowd began booing when Gene Perry announced the 3rd place winners. They booed further when I announced second place, and were still booing before Jamie ever took the mike to announce 1st place. So I think it’s incorrect to say it was jaime’s oration that was the primary reason for the booing. I maintain, the primary reason was because a lot of people were bitter that their band didn’t win.
August 20, 2007 - 10:13 pm at 10:13 pm
i knew lady dottie wouldn’t win as soon as the flack from jack fm explained that one of the judging criteria was “how close the songs sound to the originals”.
August 21, 2007 - 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm
hey everyone..it’s joey from the diamonds……and i just want to get my 2 cents in because it’s remarkable that people are still talkin’ about this……so anyways…..let’s just get it out there that we are not sore losers about this thing at all…..we were there to compete and give it our best and that’s what we did….and that’s what made the contest interesting….and we had a lot of fun…..we congatulate cash’d out for their win and wish them the best….great guys with a great attitude just out there giving music their lives and i hope that they are as succesful as they want to be in any endeavor….now i think people are, if anything, just loving fans that love us and want the best for us because they’ve spent many nights partying with us and i love them for it…..who could ask for more?….now if people are upset that there were booes when cash’d out won i understand…..but i assure you it was none of the diamonds…..and i am not mad the fans at all…..they are just great loyal fans and again….i love ‘em for it…….i think the confusion is just about the judging criteria……so let me just go out and say that overall…..dottie and the diamonds shows have never been about playing the songs all perfect or true to the original…..we don’t focus on every little detail and to be quite honest….there are often missed cues and little slips here and there…..and sometimes dottie takes certain….um….liberties with the arrangements and lyrics……but we are quite aware of this fact….our shows have never aimed to be in such fashion…….but what we do is throw our whole soul into it…..and as much passion and raw energy in it as we can muster…..and i think that’s the main reason why people feel as free to shake and dance at our shows as they do…..they see us letting go and really feeling it and feel that they can do the same………so….at the contest….we really did try to do the cues and the arrangements reallyerfect….and threw in some special moves…..like the human diamond around nucci during the drum solo….and the coreographed jumps and stuff…..and to be quite honest…..after our performance….i think we all knew that trying all that didn’t gel as much as we had hoped….but we gave it our best….and i was happy with that……in my mind…. i as hoping that crowd response and appreciation for our brand of roadhouse rock and soul would win over technicality and loyalty to the original…..but it came down to the fact that it wasn’t…..so we are happy with that…..and we know that all of those bands work really hard and should be rewarded and admired for all those reasons…
we love our fans and we are so blessed that we can squeeze out our flavor and people want to rock and roll with us!…..we had a good time and we thank everyone who came out to cheer us on!! and again….CONGRATULATIONS TO CASH’D OUT AND ALL THE WINNERS! MUCH LOVE FROM LADY DOTTIE ANDE THE DIAMONDS!
ps…..oh and adam…you’re always the funniest….sean connery?
August 23, 2007 - 11:30 am at 11:30 am
An artist can perfectly paint an exact copy of the Mona Lisa, if all they have to do is copy ever single shadow, color, texture, brush stroke, centimeter by centimeter, inch by inch. It’s really quite simple.
A TRUE artist would never even think about it.
As an artist, raised by artists with many years of professional art training, I was taught that It was blasphemous to paint from a photograph. It was important to have your subject matter in front of you and to recreate it in your own unique and original stylings. Painting from a photograph was cheating. Kinda like, Cash’d out winning the 20K.
Lady Dottie and the Diamonds have a unique flavor of their own and were the most original and entertaining act of the night. Hands down. They should have won the Viejas challenge. There is nothing like experiencing a Lady Dottie and The Diamonds live performance. There is nothing like it in the world. The energy, the musicianship and Dottie’s outfits…make Lady Dottie and The Diamonds one of the most unique and talented bands anyone will ever see live.
and to address the “booing” that was heard throughout the Dream catcher lounge when Cash’d out was announced as the winners, is not fair to blame the Diamond’s fans. In fact, the entire room was hissing….. at the fact that Cash’d out, a tribute band; which is nothing more than a bunch of aging rockabilly dudes who sit around watching the Hee Haw dvd collection, while practicing their Johnny Cash moves in the mirror won a “cover band” contest.
Don’t you judges know the difference between “tribute bands” and cover bands?
August 23, 2007 - 12:04 pm at 12:04 pm
Of course we jugdges know the difference between cover and tribute bands. In this particular contest, both were permitted. Which made our job even harder.
I’d like to address something JoeyDiamond said. Joey, you’re post was awesome. It was humble and polite and not at all reeking of sour grapes. I for one
August 23, 2007 - 1:34 pm at 1:34 pm
I have some comments/responses to previous posts. The first is a response to Molly…
Molly, of course we judges know the difference between cover and tribute bands. In this particular contest, both were permitted. (Which made our job even harder). It’s not our fault that some people would have preferred the contest to be segregated in that manner, but it wasn’t, and so we judged based on what was presented to us.
Furthermore Molly, while it is true that there is a difference between “cover” and “tribute” the two are not mutually exclusive. Tribute band is a subcategory of “cover band.” Which means, while all cover bands are not necessarily tribute bands, all tribute bands ARE also cover bands.
Secondly, the whole room was not booing and hissing that Dottie lost. There was also a big cheer from the Cash fans and those who believed we made the right decision. Had Lady Dottie won and not Cash, there would have been a loud cheer from them and a lot of booing and hissing from the Cash fans.
Now, to Dave…
Dave, it is absolutely not true that we were judging the bands on how close the songs sounded to the original versions. I don’t know if the MC said that, I certainly didn’t hear him say it. If I had heard him say it, I would’ve taken him aside and asked him to make a correction.
To reiterate this important point: We were absolutely not giving extra points to bands who were aping the songs perfectly, nor did we dock any bands for improvising, stretching, shaping or even out and out totally revamping the tunes.
It goes to the afforementioned difference between tribute bands and cover bands and Lady Dottie’s take on the various songs were refreshing and enjoyable. Bottom line, we were judging on the whole package.
JoeyDiamond, you’re post was great. It was humble and polite and not at all reeking of sour grapes. I for one really appreciate that. And for the record, your band is awesome. We wouldn’t have put you through to the finals if we didn’t think you were. As I said, most of the judges had you pegged as the winner coming into the finals. But something was different that night. For me, it was the set construction. It wasn’t as brilliant as the previous sets.
The contest was very very very VERY close and so difficult to judge so I am not surprised there is controversy over the final decision and do not believe my opinion to be any more right than any one else in that room that night. One thing is for sure though, the fact that you took liberty with the songs you covered was not a problem for me or any of the judges and had nothing to do whatsoever with our final decision.
Much love,
EJD
August 24, 2007 - 1:44 pm at 1:44 pm
Come on, bring me a little Elvis then? Impersonators are so cheesy. A Johny cash impersonator is boring….and cheesy. Cash’d out is good at what they do, but boring. They are a one trick pony. Carbon Copy something a million times the exact same way and you are going to get it perfect..and if you don’t, you’re dumb. They did the same exact songs and stage moves each round, as they do every single time I have seen them play… Oh lord, and did they really have to torture us with that wanna-be June Carter chick?….My poor ears are still recovering. She was god-awful.
LD&D worked hard to make sure that each set was chock full of new, energetic material. They do every time they play. As you mentioned previously, “In previous appearances, the Diamonds had mature, solid, powerful sets….They were full-on pro sets.”. I am sure if they did the exact same set each time, they would have won–hands down.
Perhaps LDD would have placed if:
1) They played the same set each time.
2) They didn’t play first, they are a bar band… no one goes to bars to see bands before 9:00pm, especially LD&D fans (but who were all of those fans? there were a lot despite the fact)
3) If they didn’t start a bit late do to the HORRID so-called female comedian who raped our ears pre-show for 15 minutes.
4) If the stage manager didn’t run up on stage during their set to turn Nate’s Mic on (did yoy guys notice that. That was really shitty. How do you think the band felt?).. they definitely should have gotten extra points for that casino boo boo.
5) If Dottie dressed up like Etta James circa 1990 and the band covered Etta James songs..or maybe Stevie Wonder?
And there is no way in hell that the crowd participation had ANYTHING to do with the win. LDD had the crown dancing, singing, audience call and response, screaming and cheering. Talk about crowd participation. Cash’d out absolutely had the LEAST crowd participation. It was being recorded by someone somewhere. I saw a fancy camera. Watch the video. I challenge you to argue that.
I didn’t say they were booing due to the fact Dottie lost, I said it was due to Cash’d out winning. Crush fans, Dottie fans and the other bands fans were all more than shocked that the least talented group of the bunch lost. The cheer for Cash’d outs triumph lasted all of 2 seconds.. the “boo’s” A LOT longer. Gee… There were lot’s of Cash’s out fans there, huh? The Audience really wanted them to win, huh? Sarcasm, anyone?
Also, It doesn’t seem fair that the one single performance would have decided a bands fate. It seems that an average score of each winners performances would have been added up to decide the final winner. What if a band members Granny passed away that night? or they lost their entire paycheck on the nickel slots? or they got a flat tire on the way to the gig? or just plain, lost their voice…We all have off nights, ya know?.. Just a thought…
Anyway, as an obvious LD&D fan, I Just wanted to put my two sense in; As a musician and a huge Johnny Cash fan….Cash’d out is boring. Bottom line. Sorry.
and for anyone to think that Cash’d Out is a better band (performance and musicianship-wise) than Lady Dottie and The Diamonds is an idiot. Again, Sorry.
August 24, 2007 - 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm
Oh Molly, Molly poor confused Molly, there are just so many things blatantly wrong with your post. Beginning with your list of things that Lady Dottie could have done to place or win. Let’s address them one at a time:
You said, “Lady Dottie could have placed if:
1) “They played the same set each time.”
Wrong. The judges had many discussions as we were going through the semis and finals about how we preferred it when bands changed their sets and how we were getting tired of hearing the same songs over and over. Bands who changed their sets were rewarded with higher points.
2) “They didn’t play first.”
Again, wrong. We were given four slips of paper with multiple categories to grade them on (such as musicianship, vocals, charisma, choreography, audience participation etc.). We graded each band directly after their set so there was no, “forgetting how the first band played,” which a lot of people were worried about. The only category in which set placement might have been a factor was with the audience size/participation, however, playing first on a Sunday night, when people have to work the next morning and have a long drive back to San Diego, is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, the room had cleared out quite a bit as it got later.
Now yes, I agree, that is partly because Lady is a great band and has a fantastic draw, but I also know from previous experience that the room tends to thin out in later sets.
In the end, it doesn’t really matter anyway. The time slots were chosen randomly and we all have to play the decks we were dealt.
3) “If they didn’t start a bit late do to the HORRID so-called female comedian who raped our ears pre-show for 15 minutes.”
While it was very taxing on the soul to listen to her set, the fact that Lady Dottie started late had absolutely nothing to do with how we judged them. In fact, throughout the series, starting late was the norm. Dottie still got a half hour like everyone else.
4)” If the stage manager didn’t run up on stage during their set to turn Nate’s Mic on (did yoy guys notice that. That was really shitty. How do you think the band felt?).They definitely should have gotten extra points for that casino boo boo.”
Nope, wrong again. I hate to have to school a musician (what band are you in?) on something as mundane as sound engineering, but here goes: When you go to a normal show in a venue, before you get there, a band sound check has transpired. Bands and their respective sound men can take hours tweaking this and tweaking that to make things perfect for the show.
But with shows like the Viejas thing — these battle of the band contests, where bands are on and off the stage quickly and the stage turnaround time has to be tight — the sound check is done live, meaning, the soundman are tweaking and adjusting and fixing while the band is playing for real. This is very difficult to do and for you to criticize them for doing a “shitty” job or their not being concerned about the band’s (yawn) “feelings” just tells me how little you know about the subject.
Now, you might be inclined to say, well, Dottie was the first band. Why couldn’t they do a proper sound check for/with them? The answer to which should be obvious: because then it would give them an unfair advantage over the subsequent bands who would get no proper sound check.
Bottom line here, throughout the process, technical difficulties was the norm, not the exception. No problem though cuz we judges knew what’s up. We know when a mike pops out, or when there’s too much bass (as there often was in that room), or if the background vocals are too low or whatever. We know it’s not the band’s fault and everything usually gets ironed out by the end of the first song anyway, so no, Lady Dottie did not lose because of technical difficulties.
5) If Dottie dressed up like Etta James circa 1990 and the band covered Etta James songs or maybe Stevie Wonder?
I don’t know how many times I have to say it. Tribute bands had no advantage over cover bands. Lady Dottie and her boys were perfectly dressed for what they were doing, as was Detroit Underground, as was Crush, as was Cash’d Out. It did not come down to tribute bands! Can’t say for sure why you don’t believe me on this, but you keep bringing it up. Why would I lie? Why would I give an advantage to tribute bands? I don’t like them any more than non-tribute cover bands. In fact, for a long time I despised tribute bands. I really just think, because you are such an avid fan, you can’t see beyond your own preference. As a judge, I did not have that luxury. My preference had nothing to do with it. I had to vote based on talent. In fact, my preference, above all the other bands who played that night, was Lady Dottie’s repertoire. I love those old blues/rockers. The Stones stuff and the Deep Purple! I can barely stand that dance stuff that Crush was doing. The Motown I like just fine, but give me rock and roll any day. But I had to set aside my preferences to be a fair judge. But your preferences ruled your opinion.You hate the idea of tribute bands so you could not possibly conceive of Cash’d Out winning. Yet Cash’d Out is one of the biggest drawing local bands in San Diego. And it ain’t cuz of how they dress. It’s because they are vibrant and masterful.
Also, your comment that, “There is no way in hell that the crowd participation had ANYTHING to do with the win, because Lady Dottie had clearly won that category” is lacking of common sense.
Again, I feel like I have to keep repeating myself here. Yes, Lady Dottie had the biggest crowd response. But there were lots of categories. Crowd response was just one in ten. Can’t you envision a scenario where, a band wins in one category, but loses in the others? I know it’s hard to comprehend because the judges were using this new fangled math device. It’s called addition. We added all the scores together (not just the ones your band dominated) and whoever had the highest score was deemed the winner.
Doesn’t it make perfect sense to set it up that way? After all, if audience response was the only factor, then what do you need judges for.
Lastly, your comment about it not being “fair” to judge the bands based on only that one night’s performance, rather than factoring in the whole series, is also dripping with ludicrousness. Of course it was fair to judge the bands like that. All of them were judged the same way and isn’t that what fair is? You make a rule and everyone abides it – that’s fair. Of course, reasonable minds can differ on whether it’s a good rule to have, but the fairness of how it was applied is not in question.
EJD
August 25, 2007 - 10:18 am at 10:18 am
Hey Eddie, I am bitter. What can I say? My band lost.
Sure, I am confused.
I didn’t know the judging criteria. I didn’t have a list of rules in front of me. How am I supposed to know how you are judging each act?
I think the entire casino was baffled when the judge stated that the “audience” decided the winners fate and Cash’d Out was announced at the winner.
A lot of people were confused.
Also, in regards to your comment on my MISQUOTED comment stating my opinion, “is lacking of common sense.”. Please go back and re-read both posts.
Now, it’s not fair to say, “there are just so many things blatantly wrong with your post”.
Hey, just my observations; a nobody’s public opinion. I understand you are defending yourself, as 20K is a hefty award and you better be able to back up your reasoning’s for handing it to a winner, right? I appreciate your response and I am sorry if my posts seem a bit harsh; I am not attacking or criticizing the judges…I am just confused (just like you said), that’s all.
Boy oh boy am I familiar with live sound checks, no sound checks and MAJOR technical difficulties on stage. Let me tell you! I guess I should have stated that the stage manager fixed Nate’s Mic on the 2nd to last song. Live sound checks, should usually be ironed out within the first few songs…usually. I didn’t see the stage manager on the stage during any of the other acts. Again, just an observation…. and I am not knocking the sound guys at all, they really did an amazing job.
Oh and by the way, I would have been super pissed if I were competing for 20K and the stage hand turned my mic on at the end of my set…but, hey..who cares what I think… I am just a chick anyway.. we are all extra sensitive and shit.
No, I am not a tribute band hater or a Cash’d out hater, at that. I think (once, again… there I go shooting off my opinion) that it takes less talent to “copy” art. Honestly, I felt the Lynard Skynard tribute band was a hell of a lot more interesting than Cash’d out…Sorry about the Cash bashing (I really have nothing against them at all).That’s all. In fact, Federal Funk and Crush were a lot more interesting than the winners and trust me, I have the same opinion as you on their music. Again, just MY personal opinion.
Anyway, congrats to Cash’d out. I hope they are spending their winnings wisely on booze, bibles and pills.. in the name of the man in black.
August 26, 2007 - 9:42 am at 9:42 am
i’m the poor slob who came up with this idea and i’m thrilled that so many people made the time to check this event out. i’m even happier that it has stirred such emotion. i would like to learn as many lessons as possible so next year this event can be even better (and yes, we are doing this again despite the boo’s and the vitriol…cuz it was much fun)
thanks to ed for fighting the good fight here. what a trooper; we put him in the middle of a wicked melee and he’s still swingin’.
this event was designed to be as fair as humanly possible. i wanted the results to reflect not only the opinion of professionals but the opinion of the crowd. and frankly, i think it worked pretty well - always room for improvement - but goddam if i wasn’t surprised throughout. never did i know when i looked at the judges who was going to actually win. the crowd participation was always the determining factor when we had two or three really tight bands up there.
so for everyone’s edification here’s the judging criteria (and the bands had this info, too):
Costumes/Appearance 10%
Choreography/Stage Presence 10%
Charisma/Interaction 10%
Overall Style 10%
Vocal Performance 20%
Music Performance 20%
Audience Participation 10%
Decibel Reading (Crowd Noise) 10%
There it is, naked as the day it was born…
So we weren’t looking for carbon copies. we were looking for bands who could bring the show - really and truly.
regarding the mic fubar - you try having 5 bands on the same stage in one night!! casey (the stage manager) did a helluva job. the bands all knew that we would be on stage all night striking the previous band and setting up the next one, they were prepared for some technical diffficulties.
and by the way - i book all of these bands. federal funk, crush, detroit underground, ld&d are all getting work as a result of this. so even if your band didn’t “win”, i saw them. if they kicked ass, they got gigs. i love this job…
in closing, i’d like anyone who has an opinion of the event (particularly those who want to help me improve it rather than just yell at me - but that’s ok, too) to give me a shout. jmullenNO SPAM JERKOS@viejasproduction.com
what’s more - it’s only 25 minutes from downtown so we’re not really in the BFE and the room is pretty damn nice. so come check us out. i’m working to really improve our entertainment offering (thus this contest BTW) and again would love some feedback.
August 26, 2007 - 9:44 am at 9:44 am
it’s not jerkos, unless you feel that strongly about it. it’s: jmullenNOSPAM@viejasproduction.com
September 18, 2007 - 3:10 am at 3:10 am
Saw LD&D at SDMA tonight, and don’t quite get what all the fuss is about. Certainly not running out to see this band based on what I saw, although I agree with Edwin, Nucci Cantrell IS an awesome drummer! OK Edwin now I can take some of the flack. Bring it on.
February 15, 2008 - 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm
You people are out of control and rediculous. Relax. It’s a cover band contest.