thanks to ed for fighting the good fight here. what a trooper; we put him in the middle of a wicked melee and he’s still swingin’.

this event was designed to be as fair as humanly possible. i wanted the results to reflect not only the opinion of professionals but the opinion of the crowd. and frankly, i think it worked pretty well – always room for improvement – but goddam if i wasn’t surprised throughout. never did i know when i looked at the judges who was going to actually win. the crowd participation was always the determining factor when we had two or three really tight bands up there.

so for everyone’s edification here’s the judging criteria (and the bands had this info, too):

Costumes/Appearance 10%
Choreography/Stage Presence 10%
Charisma/Interaction 10%
Overall Style 10%

Vocal Performance 20%
Music Performance 20%

Audience Participation 10%
Decibel Reading (Crowd Noise) 10%

There it is, naked as the day it was born…

So we weren’t looking for carbon copies. we were looking for bands who could bring the show – really and truly.

regarding the mic fubar – you try having 5 bands on the same stage in one night!! casey (the stage manager) did a helluva job. the bands all knew that we would be on stage all night striking the previous band and setting up the next one, they were prepared for some technical diffficulties.

and by the way – i book all of these bands. federal funk, crush, detroit underground, ld&d are all getting work as a result of this. so even if your band didn’t “win”, i saw them. if they kicked ass, they got gigs. i love this job…

in closing, i’d like anyone who has an opinion of the event (particularly those who want to help me improve it rather than just yell at me – but that’s ok, too) to give me a shout. jmullenNO SPAM JERKOS@viejasproduction.com

what’s more – it’s only 25 minutes from downtown so we’re not really in the BFE and the room is pretty damn nice. so come check us out. i’m working to really improve our entertainment offering (thus this contest BTW) and again would love some feedback.

Sure, I am confused.
I didn’t know the judging criteria. I didn’t have a list of rules in front of me. How am I supposed to know how you are judging each act?
I think the entire casino was baffled when the judge stated that the “audience” decided the winners fate and Cash’d Out was announced at the winner.
A lot of people were confused.

Also, in regards to your comment on my MISQUOTED comment stating my opinion, “is lacking of common sense.”. Please go back and re-read both posts.

Now, it’s not fair to say, “there are just so many things blatantly wrong with your post”.
Hey, just my observations; a nobody’s public opinion. I understand you are defending yourself, as 20K is a hefty award and you better be able to back up your reasoning’s for handing it to a winner, right? I appreciate your response and I am sorry if my posts seem a bit harsh; I am not attacking or criticizing the judges…I am just confused (just like you said), that’s all.

Boy oh boy am I familiar with live sound checks, no sound checks and MAJOR technical difficulties on stage. Let me tell you! I guess I should have stated that the stage manager fixed Nate’s Mic on the 2nd to last song. Live sound checks, should usually be ironed out within the first few songs…usually. I didn’t see the stage manager on the stage during any of the other acts. Again, just an observation…. and I am not knocking the sound guys at all, they really did an amazing job.
Oh and by the way, I would have been super pissed if I were competing for 20K and the stage hand turned my mic on at the end of my set…but, hey..who cares what I think… I am just a chick anyway.. we are all extra sensitive and shit.

No, I am not a tribute band hater or a Cash’d out hater, at that. I think (once, again… there I go shooting off my opinion) that it takes less talent to “copy” art. Honestly, I felt the Lynard Skynard tribute band was a hell of a lot more interesting than Cash’d out…Sorry about the Cash bashing (I really have nothing against them at all).That’s all. In fact, Federal Funk and Crush were a lot more interesting than the winners and trust me, I have the same opinion as you on their music. Again, just MY personal opinion.

Anyway, congrats to Cash’d out. I hope they are spending their winnings wisely on booze, bibles and pills.. in the name of the man in black.

You said, “Lady Dottie could have placed if:

1) “They played the same set each time.”

Wrong. The judges had many discussions as we were going through the semis and finals about how we preferred it when bands changed their sets and how we were getting tired of hearing the same songs over and over. Bands who changed their sets were rewarded with higher points.

2) “They didn’t play first.”

Again, wrong. We were given four slips of paper with multiple categories to grade them on (such as musicianship, vocals, charisma, choreography, audience participation etc.). We graded each band directly after their set so there was no, “forgetting how the first band played,” which a lot of people were worried about. The only category in which set placement might have been a factor was with the audience size/participation, however, playing first on a Sunday night, when people have to work the next morning and have a long drive back to San Diego, is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, the room had cleared out quite a bit as it got later.

Now yes, I agree, that is partly because Lady is a great band and has a fantastic draw, but I also know from previous experience that the room tends to thin out in later sets.

In the end, it doesn’t really matter anyway. The time slots were chosen randomly and we all have to play the decks we were dealt.

3) “If they didn’t start a bit late do to the HORRID so-called female comedian who raped our ears pre-show for 15 minutes.”

While it was very taxing on the soul to listen to her set, the fact that Lady Dottie started late had absolutely nothing to do with how we judged them. In fact, throughout the series, starting late was the norm. Dottie still got a half hour like everyone else.

4)” If the stage manager didn’t run up on stage during their set to turn Nate’s Mic on (did yoy guys notice that. That was really shitty. How do you think the band felt?).They definitely should have gotten extra points for that casino boo boo.”

Nope, wrong again. I hate to have to school a musician (what band are you in?) on something as mundane as sound engineering, but here goes: When you go to a normal show in a venue, before you get there, a band sound check has transpired. Bands and their respective sound men can take hours tweaking this and tweaking that to make things perfect for the show.

But with shows like the Viejas thing — these battle of the band contests, where bands are on and off the stage quickly and the stage turnaround time has to be tight — the sound check is done live, meaning, the soundman are tweaking and adjusting and fixing while the band is playing for real. This is very difficult to do and for you to criticize them for doing a “shitty” job or their not being concerned about the band’s (yawn) “feelings” just tells me how little you know about the subject.

Now, you might be inclined to say, well, Dottie was the first band. Why couldn’t they do a proper sound check for/with them? The answer to which should be obvious: because then it would give them an unfair advantage over the subsequent bands who would get no proper sound check.

Bottom line here, throughout the process, technical difficulties was the norm, not the exception. No problem though cuz we judges knew what’s up. We know when a mike pops out, or when there’s too much bass (as there often was in that room), or if the background vocals are too low or whatever. We know it’s not the band’s fault and everything usually gets ironed out by the end of the first song anyway, so no, Lady Dottie did not lose because of technical difficulties.

5) If Dottie dressed up like Etta James circa 1990 and the band covered Etta James songs or maybe Stevie Wonder?

I don’t know how many times I have to say it. Tribute bands had no advantage over cover bands. Lady Dottie and her boys were perfectly dressed for what they were doing, as was Detroit Underground, as was Crush, as was Cash’d Out. It did not come down to tribute bands! Can’t say for sure why you don’t believe me on this, but you keep bringing it up. Why would I lie? Why would I give an advantage to tribute bands? I don’t like them any more than non-tribute cover bands. In fact, for a long time I despised tribute bands. I really just think, because you are such an avid fan, you can’t see beyond your own preference. As a judge, I did not have that luxury. My preference had nothing to do with it. I had to vote based on talent. In fact, my preference, above all the other bands who played that night, was Lady Dottie’s repertoire. I love those old blues/rockers. The Stones stuff and the Deep Purple! I can barely stand that dance stuff that Crush was doing. The Motown I like just fine, but give me rock and roll any day. But I had to set aside my preferences to be a fair judge. But your preferences ruled your opinion.You hate the idea of tribute bands so you could not possibly conceive of Cash’d Out winning. Yet Cash’d Out is one of the biggest drawing local bands in San Diego. And it ain’t cuz of how they dress. It’s because they are vibrant and masterful.

Also, your comment that, “There is no way in hell that the crowd participation had ANYTHING to do with the win, because Lady Dottie had clearly won that category” is lacking of common sense.

Again, I feel like I have to keep repeating myself here. Yes, Lady Dottie had the biggest crowd response. But there were lots of categories. Crowd response was just one in ten. Can’t you envision a scenario where, a band wins in one category, but loses in the others? I know it’s hard to comprehend because the judges were using this new fangled math device. It’s called addition. We added all the scores together (not just the ones your band dominated) and whoever had the highest score was deemed the winner.

Doesn’t it make perfect sense to set it up that way? After all, if audience response was the only factor, then what do you need judges for.

Lastly, your comment about it not being “fair” to judge the bands based on only that one night’s performance, rather than factoring in the whole series, is also dripping with ludicrousness. Of course it was fair to judge the bands like that. All of them were judged the same way and isn’t that what fair is? You make a rule and everyone abides it – that’s fair. Of course, reasonable minds can differ on whether it’s a good rule to have, but the fairness of how it was applied is not in question.

EJD

LD&D worked hard to make sure that each set was chock full of new, energetic material. They do every time they play. As you mentioned previously, “In previous appearances, the Diamonds had mature, solid, powerful sets….They were full-on pro sets.”. I am sure if they did the exact same set each time, they would have won–hands down.

Perhaps LDD would have placed if:

1) They played the same set each time.
2) They didn’t play first, they are a bar band… no one goes to bars to see bands before 9:00pm, especially LD&D fans (but who were all of those fans? there were a lot despite the fact)
3) If they didn’t start a bit late do to the HORRID so-called female comedian who raped our ears pre-show for 15 minutes.
4) If the stage manager didn’t run up on stage during their set to turn Nate’s Mic on (did yoy guys notice that. That was really shitty. How do you think the band felt?).. they definitely should have gotten extra points for that casino boo boo.
5) If Dottie dressed up like Etta James circa 1990 and the band covered Etta James songs..or maybe Stevie Wonder?

And there is no way in hell that the crowd participation had ANYTHING to do with the win. LDD had the crown dancing, singing, audience call and response, screaming and cheering. Talk about crowd participation. Cash’d out absolutely had the LEAST crowd participation. It was being recorded by someone somewhere. I saw a fancy camera. Watch the video. I challenge you to argue that.

I didn’t say they were booing due to the fact Dottie lost, I said it was due to Cash’d out winning. Crush fans, Dottie fans and the other bands fans were all more than shocked that the least talented group of the bunch lost. The cheer for Cash’d outs triumph lasted all of 2 seconds.. the “boo’s” A LOT longer. Gee… There were lot’s of Cash’s out fans there, huh? The Audience really wanted them to win, huh? Sarcasm, anyone?

Also, It doesn’t seem fair that the one single performance would have decided a bands fate. It seems that an average score of each winners performances would have been added up to decide the final winner. What if a band members Granny passed away that night? or they lost their entire paycheck on the nickel slots? or they got a flat tire on the way to the gig? or just plain, lost their voice…We all have off nights, ya know?.. Just a thought…

Anyway, as an obvious LD&D fan, I Just wanted to put my two sense in; As a musician and a huge Johnny Cash fan….Cash’d out is boring. Bottom line. Sorry.
and for anyone to think that Cash’d Out is a better band (performance and musicianship-wise) than Lady Dottie and The Diamonds is an idiot. Again, Sorry.

Molly, of course we judges know the difference between cover and tribute bands. In this particular contest, both were permitted. (Which made our job even harder). It’s not our fault that some people would have preferred the contest to be segregated in that manner, but it wasn’t, and so we judged based on what was presented to us.

Furthermore Molly, while it is true that there is a difference between “cover” and “tribute” the two are not mutually exclusive. Tribute band is a subcategory of “cover band.” Which means, while all cover bands are not necessarily tribute bands, all tribute bands ARE also cover bands.

Secondly, the whole room was not booing and hissing that Dottie lost. There was also a big cheer from the Cash fans and those who believed we made the right decision. Had Lady Dottie won and not Cash, there would have been a loud cheer from them and a lot of booing and hissing from the Cash fans.

Now, to Dave…

Dave, it is absolutely not true that we were judging the bands on how close the songs sounded to the original versions. I don’t know if the MC said that, I certainly didn’t hear him say it. If I had heard him say it, I would’ve taken him aside and asked him to make a correction.

To reiterate this important point: We were absolutely not giving extra points to bands who were aping the songs perfectly, nor did we dock any bands for improvising, stretching, shaping or even out and out totally revamping the tunes.

It goes to the afforementioned difference between tribute bands and cover bands and Lady Dottie’s take on the various songs were refreshing and enjoyable. Bottom line, we were judging on the whole package.

JoeyDiamond, you’re post was great. It was humble and polite and not at all reeking of sour grapes. I for one really appreciate that. And for the record, your band is awesome. We wouldn’t have put you through to the finals if we didn’t think you were. As I said, most of the judges had you pegged as the winner coming into the finals. But something was different that night. For me, it was the set construction. It wasn’t as brilliant as the previous sets.

The contest was very very very VERY close and so difficult to judge so I am not surprised there is controversy over the final decision and do not believe my opinion to be any more right than any one else in that room that night. One thing is for sure though, the fact that you took liberty with the songs you covered was not a problem for me or any of the judges and had nothing to do whatsoever with our final decision.

Much love,
EJD

I’d like to address something JoeyDiamond said. Joey, you’re post was awesome. It was humble and polite and not at all reeking of sour grapes. I for one

A TRUE artist would never even think about it.

As an artist, raised by artists with many years of professional art training, I was taught that It was blasphemous to paint from a photograph. It was important to have your subject matter in front of you and to recreate it in your own unique and original stylings. Painting from a photograph was cheating. Kinda like, Cash’d out winning the 20K.

Lady Dottie and the Diamonds have a unique flavor of their own and were the most original and entertaining act of the night. Hands down. They should have won the Viejas challenge. There is nothing like experiencing a Lady Dottie and The Diamonds live performance. There is nothing like it in the world. The energy, the musicianship and Dottie’s outfits…make Lady Dottie and The Diamonds one of the most unique and talented bands anyone will ever see live.

and to address the “booing” that was heard throughout the Dream catcher lounge when Cash’d out was announced as the winners, is not fair to blame the Diamond’s fans. In fact, the entire room was hissing….. at the fact that Cash’d out, a tribute band; which is nothing more than a bunch of aging rockabilly dudes who sit around watching the Hee Haw dvd collection, while practicing their Johnny Cash moves in the mirror won a “cover band” contest.

Don’t you judges know the difference between “tribute bands” and cover bands?